195 Woman and Birth

From Faith Futures
Jump to: navigation, search

This page forms part of the resources for 195 Woman and Birth in the Jesus Database project of FaithFutures Foundation

Crossan Inventory | 195 Literature | 195 Parallels | 195 Commentary | 195 Poetry | 195 Images


(1a) GEgy 1
(1b) GEgy 2
(1c) GEgy 3
(1d) GEgy 4
(1e) GEgy 6
(2a) DialSav 58-59
(2b) DialSav 90-95

Crossan analysis:

Item: 195
Stratum: II (60-80 CE)
Attestation: Double
Historicity: -


(1a) GEgy 1

When Salome asked: “How long will death have power?” the Lord answered, “So long as you women bear children” - not as if life was something bad and creation evil, but as teaching the sequence of nature. (cited in Clement, Stromateis iii.6.45) [Sayings Parallels]

Τῇ Σαλώμῃ ὁ κύριος πυνθανομένῃ· “μέχρι πότε θάνατος ἰσχύσει;” οὐχ ὡς κακοῦ τοῦ βίου ὄντες καὶ τῆς κτίσεως πονηρᾶς “μέχρις ἄν,” εἶπεν, “ὑμεῖς αἱ γυναίκες τίκτητε,” ἀλλ᾿ ὡς τὴν ἀκολουθίαν τὴν φυσικὴν διδάσκων· γενέσει γὰρ πάντως ἕπεται καὶ φθορά. (Egypt 1:1 AGOSP-T)

(1b) GEgy 2

But those who are opposed to God's creation because of continence, which has a fair-sounding name, also quote the words which addressed to Salome, which I mentioned earlier. They are contained, as I believe, in the Gospel of the Egyptians. For, they say: the Savior himself said: “I am come to undo the works of the female,” by the female meaning lust, and by the works birth and decay. (cited in Clement, Stromateis iii.9.63) [Sayings Parallels]

Οἱ δὲ ἀντιτασσόμενοι τῇ κτίσει τοῦ θεοῦ διὰ τῆς εὐφήμου ἐγκρατείας κἀκεῖνα λέγουσι τὰ πρὸς Σαλώμην εἰρημένα, ὧν πρότερον ἐμνήσθημεν. φέρεται δέ, οἶμαι, ἐν τῷ κατ᾿ Αἰγυπτίους εὐαγγελίῳ. φασὶ γὰρ ὅτι αὐτὸς εἶπεν ὁ σωτήρ· “ἦλθον καταλῦσαι τὰ ἔργα τῆς θηλείας.” θηλείας μὲν τῆς ἐπιθυμίας, ἔργα δὲ γένεσιν καὶ φθοράν. (Egypt 1:2 AGOSP-T)

(1c) GEgy 3

Since then the Word has alluded to the consummation, Salome saith rightly, “Until when shall men die?” Now Scripture uses the term ‘man’ is two senses, of the visible outward form and of the soul, and again of the redeemed man and of him who is not redeemed. And sin is called the death of the soul. Wherefore the Lord answers advisedly, “So long as women bear children,” i.e., so long as lusts are powerful. (cited in Clement, Stromateis iii.9. 64) [Sayings Parallels]

Οθεν εἰκότως περὶ συντελείας μηνύσαντος τοῦ λόγου ἡ Σαλώμη φησί· Μέχρι τίνος οἱ ἄνθρωποι ἀποθανοῦνται; ἄνθρωπον δὲ καλεῖ ἡ γραφὴ διχῶς, τόν τε φαινόμενον καὶ τὴν ψυχήν, πάλιν τε αὖ τὸν σῳζόμενον καὶ τὸν μή. καὶ θάνατος ψυχῆς ἡ ἁμαρτία λέγεται. διὸ καὶ παρατετηρημένως ἀποκρίνεται ὁ κύριος· “μέχρις ἃ τίκτωσιν αἱ γυναίκες. (Egypt 1:3–4 AGOSP-T)

(1d) GEgy 4

Why do they not also adduce what follows the words spoken to Salome, these people who do anything but walk by the gospel rule according to truth? For when she said, “I have done well then in not bearing children,” as if it were improper to engage in procreation, then the Lord answered and said, “Eat every plant, but that which has bitterness eat not.” (cited in Clement, Stromateis iii.9. 66) [Sayings Parallels]

Τὶ δὲ οὐχὶ καὶ τὰ ἑξῆς τῶν πρὸς Σαλώμην εἰρημένων ἐπιφέρουσιν οἱ πάντα μᾶλλον ἢ τῷ κατὰ τὴν ἀλήθειαν εὐαγγελικῷ στοιχήσαντες κανόνι; φαμένης γὰρ αὐτῆς· “καλῶς οὖν ἐποίησα μὴ τεκοῦσα,” ὡς οὐ δεόντως τῆς γενέσεως παραλαμβανομένης, ἀμείβεται λέγων ὁ κύριος· “πᾶσαν φάγε βοτάνην, τὴν δὲ πικρίαν ἔχουσαν μὴ φάγῃς. (Egypt 1:4 AGOSP-T)

(1e) GEgy 6

And when the Savior says to Salome that death will prevail as long as women bear children, he does not thereby slander procreation, for that indeed is necessary for the redemption of believers. (cited in Clement, Excerpta ex Theodoto 67.20 [Sayings Parallels]

διὰ τοῦτό τοι ὁ Κασσιανός φησι· “Πυνθανομένης τῆς Σαλώμης πότε γνωσθήσεται τὰ περὶ ὧν ἤρετο, ἔφη ὁ κύριος· ‘ὅταν τὸ τῆς αἰσχύνης ἔνδυμα πατήσητε καὶ ὅταν γένηται τὰ δύο ἕν καὶ τὸ ἄρρεν μετὰ τῆς θηλείας οὔτε ἄρρεν οὔτε θῆλυ.’” πρῶτον μὲν οὖν ἐν τοῖς παραδεδομένοις ἡμῖν τέτταρσιν εὐαγγελίοις οὐκ ἔχομεν τὸ ῥητόν, ἀλλ᾿ ἐν τῷ κατ᾿ Αἰγυπτίους. ἔπειτα δὲ ἀγνοεῖν μοι δοκεῖ ὅτι θυμὸν μὲν ἄρρενα ὁρμήν, θήλειαν δὲ τὴν ἐπιθυμίαν αἰνίττεται, οἷς ἐνεργήσασι μετάνοια ἕπεται καὶ αἰσχύνη (Egypt 1:6–7 AGOSP-T)

(2a) DialSav 58-59 [= ch 23]

Judas said, "Why then, in truth, do <the living> die and <the dead> live?" 2The Lord said, "Whatever is from the truth does not die; whatever is from woman dies." Complete Gospels

Original language text is currently unavailable

(2b) DialSav 90-95 [= ch 37]

Judas said, "You have told us this from the mind of truth. When we pray, how are we to pray?"

2 The Lord said, "Pray in a place where there is no woman."
3 Matthew said, "He tells us, 'Pray in the place where there is no woman,' that is, 'Destroy the works of the female'; 4 not because there is another birth but because they will cease [giving birth]."
5 Mary said, "They will never be destroyed."
6 The Lord said, "Who is it that knows that they will [not] dissolve and [the works] of [the female] be [destroyed in this pl]ace [too]?"

7 Judas said [to Matt]hew, "The works of the [female] will dissolve [...] the archons will [...8...] shall we become ready for them in this way?" [Complete Gospels]

Original language text is currently unavailable