Difference between revisions of "039 Plant Rooted Up"

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Crossan does not discuss this cluster in [[Historical Jesus]].
 
Crossan does not discuss this cluster in [[Historical Jesus]].
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===Jesus Seminar===
 
===Jesus Seminar===
  
 
Some of the Fellows were willing to concede that Jesus may have spoken something along these lines (partly due to the similarity with Matt 3:10: "Even now the axe is aimed a the root of the trees. So every tree not producing fruit gets cut down and tossed into the fire.") However, the saying could also be a proverb better attributed to the common lore of the Second Temple Jewish community. [Five Gospels, 202]
 
Some of the Fellows were willing to concede that Jesus may have spoken something along these lines (partly due to the similarity with Matt 3:10: "Even now the axe is aimed a the root of the trees. So every tree not producing fruit gets cut down and tossed into the fire.") However, the saying could also be a proverb better attributed to the common lore of the Second Temple Jewish community. [Five Gospels, 202]
 +
  
 
===Gerd Luedemann===
 
===Gerd Luedemann===
  
 
Luedemann [Jesus, 192] notes the way this saying accentuates the criticism of Jesus' Jewish opponents, but does not address the question of its provenance until he treats Thom 40:1-2. There (page 610) he attributes Matt 15:13 to the Matthean redactor, and concludes that Thomas is dependent on Matthew for this saying.
 
Luedemann [Jesus, 192] notes the way this saying accentuates the criticism of Jesus' Jewish opponents, but does not address the question of its provenance until he treats Thom 40:1-2. There (page 610) he attributes Matt 15:13 to the Matthean redactor, and concludes that Thomas is dependent on Matthew for this saying.
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===John P. Meier===
 
===John P. Meier===
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== Poetry ==
 
== Poetry ==
 
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Revision as of 15:08, 16 March 2011

This page is part of the Jesus Database project.


Data

(1) Thom 40
(2) Matt 15:12-13
(3a) IgnTrall 11:1b
(3b) IgnPhil 3:1b

Crossan analysis
Item: 39
Stratum: I (30-60 CE)
Attestation: Triple
Historicity: -



Texts

(1) Thom 40

Jesus said, "A grapevine has been planted apart from the Father. /2/Since it is not strong, it will be pulled up by its root and will perish." [Complete Gospels]


(2) Matt 15:12-13

Then the disciples approached and said to him, "Do you know that the Pharisees took offense when they heard what you said?" /13/He answered, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted."


(3) Ignatius

(3a) IgnTrall 11:1b

Fly from these wicked offshoots, which bear deadly fruit, which if a man eat he presently dies. For these are not the plantings of the Father. /2/ For if they were they would appear as branches of the Cross (and their fruit would be incorruptible) by which through his Passion he calls you who are his members. The head therefore cannot be borne without the limbs, since God promises union, that is himself. [Sayings Parallels, 72]


(3b) IgnPhil 3:1b

Abstain from evil growths, which Jesus Christ does not tend, because they are not the planting of the Father. Not that I have found division among you, but 'filtering.' [Sayings Parallels, 72]




Literature




Parallels




Commentary

John Dominic Crossan

Crossan does not discuss this cluster in Historical Jesus.


Jesus Seminar

Some of the Fellows were willing to concede that Jesus may have spoken something along these lines (partly due to the similarity with Matt 3:10: "Even now the axe is aimed a the root of the trees. So every tree not producing fruit gets cut down and tossed into the fire.") However, the saying could also be a proverb better attributed to the common lore of the Second Temple Jewish community. [Five Gospels, 202]


Gerd Luedemann

Luedemann [Jesus, 192] notes the way this saying accentuates the criticism of Jesus' Jewish opponents, but does not address the question of its provenance until he treats Thom 40:1-2. There (page 610) he attributes Matt 15:13 to the Matthean redactor, and concludes that Thomas is dependent on Matthew for this saying.


John P. Meier

Meier does not discuss this saying in the first three volumes of A Marginal Jew.


Poetry




Images




Work to be Done