008 When and Where

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This page forms part of the resources for 008 When and Where in the Jesus Database project of FaithFutures Foundation

Crossan Inventory | 008 Literature | 008 Parallels | 008 Commentary | 008 Poetry | 008 Images | 008 Synopsis .


Data

1a) GThom. 3:1 & P. Oxy. 654.3:1
(1b) GThom. 51; (1c) GThom. 113
(2) 2Q: Luke 17:23 = Matt 24:26
(3) Mark 13:21-23 = Matt 24:23-25
(4?) Dial. Sav. 16; (5) 1Q?: Luke 17:20-21

Crossan analysis:

Item: 8
Stratum: I (30-60 CE)
Attestation: Multiple
Historicity: +
Common Sayings Tradition: Yes
Miracle Tradition: No

Texts

(1) Gospel of Thomas

(1a) Thom 3:1-5

Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the imperial rule is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you." If they say to you, 'It is in he sea,' then the fish will precede you. 3 Rather, the imperial rule is inside you and outside you. 4 When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. 5 But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are poverty. (Complete Gospels)

“λέγει Ἰ[η(σοῦ)ς· ἐὰν] οἱ ἕλκοντες ἡμᾶς [εἴπωσιν ὑμῖν· ἰδοὺ] ἡ βασιλεία ἐν οὐρα[νῷ, ὑμᾶς φθήσεται] τὰ πετεινὰ τοῦ οὐρ[ανοῦ· ἐὰν δ᾿ εἴπωσιν ὅ]τι ὑπὸ τὴν γῆν ἐστ[ιν, εἰσελεύσονται] οἱ ἰχθύες τῆς θαλά[σσης προφθάσαν]τες ὑμᾶς· καὶ ἡ βασ[ιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ] ἐντὸς ὑμῶν [ἐσ]τι [κἀκτός. ὃς ἂν ἑαυτὸν] γνῷ, ταύτην εὑρή[σει, καὶ ὅτε ὑμεῖς] ἑαυτοὺς γνώσεσθε, [εἴσεσθε ὅτι υἱοί] ἐστε ὑμεῖς τοῦ πατρὸς τοῦ ζ[ῶντος· εἰ δὲ μὴ] γνώσ(εσ)θε ἑαυτούς, ἐν [τῇ πτωχείᾳ ἐστὲ] καὶ ὑμεῖς ἐστε ἡ πτω[χεία].” (Thomas 1:3 AGOSP-T)


= POxy654 3:1-5

Jesus says, "[If] your leaders [say to you, 'Look,] the Father's imperial rule is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. 2 If they say] that it is under the earth, then the fish of the sea [will precede] you. 3 And [the imperial rule] is inside you [and outside . 4 You who] know [yourselves] will find this. [And when you] know yourselves, [you will understand that] you are [children] of the [living] Father. 5 [But if] you do [not] know yourselves, [you live] in poverty, and you are [poverty]." [Complete Gospels]

Original language text is currently unavailable

(1b) Thom 51

His disciples said to him, "When will the rest for the dead take place, and when will the new world come?" 2 He said to them, "What you are looking for has come, but you don't know it." [Complete Gospels]


No copies of this portion of Thomas survive in Greek. For the Coptic version see [Early Christian Writings]



(1c) Thom 113

His disciples said to him, "When will the imperial rule come?" 2 "It will not come by watching for it. 3 It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' 4 Rather, the Father's imperial rule is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it." [Complete Gospels]

“ὥς φησιν ὁ κύριος· ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ χαμαὶ ἥπλωται καὶ οἱ ἄνθρωποι οὐκ ἐμβλέπουσιν αὐτήν. καὶ πάλιν· ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ ἐντὸς ὑμῶν ἐστι.” (Thomas 1:113 AGOSP-T)



(2) 2Q: Luke 17:23

They will say to you, 'Look there!' or 'Look here!' Do not go, do not set off in pursuit.

καὶ ἐροῦσιν ὑμῖν· ἰδοὺ ἐκεῖ, [ἤ·] ἰδοὺ ὧδε· μὴ ἀπέλθητε μηδὲ διώξητε. (Luke 17:23 GNT-T)


= Matt 24:26

So, if they say to you, 'Look! He is in the wilderness,' do not go out. If they say, 'Look! He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.

ἐὰν οὖν εἴπωσιν ὑμῖν· ἰδοὺ ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ ἐστίν, μὴ ἐξέλθητε· ἰδοὺ ἐν τοῖς ταμείοις, μὴ πιστεύσητε· (Matthew 24:26 GNT-T)



(3) Mark 13:21-23

21 And if anyone says to you at that time, 'Look! Here is the Messiah!' or 'Look! There he is!' --do not believe it. 22 False messiahs and false prophets will appear and produce signs and omens, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. 23 But be alert; I have already told you everything.

Καὶ τότε ἐάν τις ὑμῖν εἴπῃ· ἴδε ὧδε ὁ χριστός, ἴδε ἐκεῖ, μὴ πιστεύετε· ἐγερθήσονται γὰρ ψευδόχριστοι καὶ ψευδοπροφῆται καὶ δώσουσιν σημεῖα καὶ τέρατα πρὸς τὸ ἀποπλανᾶν, εἰ δυνατόν, τοὺς ἐκλεκτούς. ὑμεῖς δὲ βλέπετε· προείρηκα ὑμῖν πάντα. (Mark 13:21–23 GNT-T)


= Matt 24:23-25

23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look! Here is the Messiah!' or 'There he is!' --do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and produce great signs and omens, to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25 Take note, I have told you beforehand.

Τότε ἐάν τις ὑμῖν εἴπῃ· ἰδοὺ ὧδε ὁ χριστός, ἤ· ὧδε, μὴ πιστεύσητε· ἐγερθήσονται γὰρ ψευδόχριστοι καὶ ψευδοπροφῆται καὶ δώσουσιν σημεῖα μεγάλα καὶ τέρατα ὥστε πλανῆσαι, εἰ δυνατόν, καὶ τοὺς ἐκλεκτούς. ἰδοὺ προείρηκα ὑμῖν. (Matthew 24:23–25 GNT-T)



(4?) DialSav 16

"If you do not [understand] how fire came to be, you will burn in it, because you do not know its root. 2 If you do not first understand water, you know nothing; for what is the use of your receiving baptism in it? 3 If you do not understand how the wind that blows came to be, you will fly away with it. 4 If you do not understand how the body which you bear came to be, you will perish with it. 5 And if you do not know [the S]on, how will you know the [Father]? 6 And you will not know the root of all things; they are hidden from you. 7 Those who will not know the root of wickedness are not strangers to it. 8 Those who will not understand how they came will not understand how they will go; and they are no strangers to this world which will [..and] which will be humbled." [Complete Gospels]

Original language text is currently unavailable

(5)1Q?: Luke 17:20-21

Once Jesus was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, and he answered, "The kingdom of God is not coming with things that can be observed; 21 nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There it is!' For, in fact, the kingdom of God is among you."

Ἐπερωτηθεὶς δὲ ὑπὸ τῶν Φαρισαίων πότε ἔρχεται ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ ἀπεκρίθη αὐτοῖς καὶ εἶπεν· οὐκ ἔρχεται ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ μετὰ παρατηρήσεως, οὐδὲ ἐροῦσιν· ἰδοὺ ὧδε ἤ· ἐκεῖ, ἰδοὺ γὰρ ἡ βασιλεία τοῦ θεοῦ ἐντὸς ὑμῶν ἐστιν. (Luke 17:20–21 GNT-T)