003 Bread and Fish

From Faithfutures

This page is part of the Jesus Database project of the FaithFutures Foundation.

1 Data
2 Literature
3 Texts
4 Parallels
5 Commentary
6 Poetry
7 Images
8 Work to be Done

Data

(1?) 1 Cor 15:6
(2) John 6:1-15
(3a) Mark 6:33-44 =Matt 9:36; 14:13b-21 = Luke 9:11-17
(3b) Mark 8:1-10 = Matt 15:32-39
(4) Luke 24:13-33,35
(5) Luke 24:41-43
(6) John 21:9,12-13

Crossan analysis:
Item: 3
Stratum: I (30-60 CE)
Attestation: Multiple
Historicity: ±
Common Sayings Tradition: No
Miracle Tradition: Yes

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Literature

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Texts

(1) 1 Cor 15:6

/6/ Next he appeared to a crowd of more than five hundred believers at the same time, most of whom are still alive, although some have died.

(2) John 6:1-15

/1/ After this Jesus went to the other side of the Sea of Galilee, also called the Sea of Tiberias. /2/ A large crowd kept following him, because they saw the signs that he was doing for the sick. /3/ Jesus went up the mountain and sat down there with his disciples. /4/ Now the Passover, the festival of the Jews, was near. /5/ When he looked up and saw a large crowd coming toward him, Jesus said to Philip, "Where are we to buy bread for these people to eat?" /6/ He said this to test him, for he himself knew what he was going to do. /7/ Philip answered him, "Six months' wages would not buy enough bread for each of them to get a little." /8/ One of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, said to him, /9/ "There is a boy here who has five barley loaves and two fish. But what are they among so many people?" /10/ Jesus said, "Make the people sit down." Now there was a great deal of grass in the place; so they sat down, about five thousand in all. /11/ Then Jesus took the loaves, and when he had given thanks, he distributed them to those who were seated; so also the fish, as much as they wanted. /12/ When they were satisfied, he told his disciples, "Gather up the fragments left over, so that nothing may be lost." /13/ So they gathered them up, and from the fragments of the five barley loaves, left by those who had eaten, they filled twelve baskets. /14/ When the people saw the sign that he had done, they began to say, "This is indeed the prophet who is to come into the world." /15/ When Jesus realized that they were about to come and take him by force to make him king, he withdrew again to the mountain by himself. .

(3) Mark 6:33-44

(3a) 5,000 Fed - Mark 6:35-44

/33 / Now many saw them going and recognized them, and they hurried there on foot from all the towns and arrived ahead of them. /34/ As he went ashore, he saw a great crowd; and he had compassion for them, because they were like sheep without a shepherd; and he began to teach them many things. /35/ When it grew late, his disciples came to him and said, "This is a deserted place, and the hour is now very late; /36/ send them away so that they may go into the surrounding country and villages and buy something for themselves to eat." /37/ But he answered them, "You give them something to eat." They said to him, "Are we to go and buy two hundred denarii worth of bread, and give it to them to eat?" /38/ And he said to them, "How many loaves have you? Go and see." When they had found out, they said, "Five, and two fish." /39/ Then he ordered them to get all the people to sit down in groups on the green grass. /40/ So they sat down in groups of hundreds and of fifties. /41/ Taking the five loaves and the two fish, he looked up to heaven, and blessed and broke the loaves, and gave them to his disciples to set before the people; and he divided the two fish among them all. /42/ And all ate and were filled; /43/ and they took up twelve baskets full of broken pieces and of the fish. /44/ Those who had eaten the loaves numbered five thousand men.

= Matt 14:15-21
/15/ When it was evening, the disciples came to him and said, "This is a deserted place, and the hour is now late; send the crowds away so that they may go into the villages and buy food for themselves." /16/ Jesus said to them, "They need not go away; you give them something to eat." /17/ They replied, "We have nothing here but five loaves and two fish." /18/ And he said, "Bring them here to me." /19/ Then he ordered the crowds to sit down on the grass. Taking the five loaves and the two fish, he looked up to heaven, and blessed and broke the loaves, and gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the crowds. /20/ And all ate and were filled; and they took up what was left over of the broken pieces, twelve baskets full. /21/ And those who ate were about five thousand men, besides women and children.

= Luke 9:12-17
/12/ The day was drawing to a close, and the twelve came to him and said, "Send the crowd away, so that they may go into the surrounding villages and countryside, to lodge and get provisions; for we are here in a deserted place." /13/ But he said to them, "You give them something to eat." They said, "We have no more than five loaves and two fish -unless we are to go and buy food for all these people." /14/ For there were about five thousand men. And he said to his disciples, "Make them sit down in groups of about fifty each." /15/ They did so and made them all sit down. /16/ And taking the five loaves and the two fish, he looked up to heaven, and blessed and broke them, and gave them to the disciples to set before the crowd. /17/ And all ate and were filled. What was left over was gathered up, twelve baskets of broken pieces.

(3b) 4,000 Fed - Mark 8:1-10

/1/ In those days when there was again a great crowd without anything to eat, he called his disciples and said to them, /2 / "I have compassion for the crowd, because they have been with me now for three days and have nothing to eat. /3/ If I send them away hungry to their homes, they will faint on the way -and some of them have come from a great distance." /4/ His disciples replied, "How can one feed these people with bread here in the desert?" /5/ He asked them, "How many loaves do you have?" They said, "Seven." /6/ Then he ordered the crowd to sit down on the ground; and he took the seven loaves, and after giving thanks he broke them and gave them to his disciples to distribute; and they distributed them to the crowd. /7/ They had also a few small fish; and after blessing them, he ordered that these too should be distributed. /8/ They ate and were filled; and they took up the broken pieces left over, seven baskets full. /9/ Now there were about four thousand people. And he sent them away. /10/ And immediately he got into the boat with his disciples and went to the district of Dalmanutha.

= Matt 15:32-39
/32/ Then Jesus called his disciples to him and said, "I have compassion for the crowd, because they have been with me now for three days and have nothing to eat; and I do not want to send them away hungry, for they might faint on the way." /33/ The disciples said to him, "Where are we to get enough bread in the desert to feed so great a crowd?" /34/ Jesus asked them, "How many loaves have you?" They said, "Seven, and a few small fish." /35/ Then ordering the crowd to sit down on the ground, /36/ he took the seven loaves and the fish; and after giving thanks he broke them and gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the crowds. /37/ And all of them ate and were filled; and they took up the broken pieces left over, seven baskets full. /38/ Those who had eaten were four thousand men, besides women and children. /39/ After sending away the crowds, he got into the boat and went to the region of Magadan.

(4) Luke 24:13-33, 35

/13/ Now on that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem, /14/ and talking with each other about all these things that had happened. /15/ While they were talking and discussing, Jesus himself came near and went with them, /16/ but their eyes were kept from recognizing him. /17/ And he said to them, "What are you discussing with each other while you walk along?" They stood still, looking sad. /18/ Then one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answered him, "Are you the only stranger in Jerusalem who does not know the things that have taken place there in these days?" /19/ He asked them, "What things?" They replied, "The things about Jesus of Nazareth, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, /20/ and how our chief priests and leaders handed him over to be condemned to death and crucified him. /21/ But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things took place. /22/ Moreover, some women of our group astounded us. They were at the tomb early this morning, /23/ and when they did not find his body there, they came back and told us that they had indeed seen a vision of angels who said that he was alive. /24/ Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said; but they did not see him." /25/ Then he said to them, "Oh, how foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have declared! /26/ Was it not necessary that the Messiah should suffer these things and then enter into his glory?" /27/ Then beginning with Moses and all the prophets, he interpreted to them the things about himself in all the scriptures. /28/ As they came near the village to which they were going, he walked ahead as if he were going on. /29/ But they urged him strongly, saying, "Stay with us, because it is almost evening and the day is now nearly over." So he went in to stay with them. /30/ When he was at the table with them, he took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them. /31/ Then their eyes were opened, and they recognized him; and he vanished from their sight. /32/ They said to each other, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he was talking to us on the road, while he was opening the scriptures to us?" /33/ That same hour they got up and returned to Jerusalem; and they found the eleven and their companions gathered together. /35/ Then they told what had happened on the road, and how he had been made known to them in the breaking of the bread.

(5) Luke 24:41-43

/41/ While in their joy they were disbelieving and still wondering, he said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?" /42/ They gave him a piece of broiled fish, /43/ and he took it and ate in their presence.

(6) John 21:9,12-13

/9/ When they had gone ashore, they saw a charcoal fire there, with fish on it, and bread. /12/ Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." Now none of the disciples dared to ask him, "Who are you?" because they knew it was the Lord. /13/ Jesus came and took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish.

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Parallels

Elisha feeds 100 people

A man came from Baal-shalishah, bringing food from the first fruits to the man of God: twenty loaves of barley and fresh ears of grain in his sack. Elisha said, "Give it to the people and let them eat." But his servant said, "How can I set this before a hundred people?" So he repeated, "Give it to the people and let them eat, for thus says the LORD, 'They shall eat and have some left.'" He set it before them, they ate, and had some left, according to the word of the LORD. (2Kings 4:42-44 NRSV)

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Commentary

Raymond E. Brown

The distinctive features of John's version of this well-known tradition have also attracted some comment, and these are reviewed at length by Raymond Brown (Gospel of John AB 29, 236-50). The following elements are peculiar to John's version of the story:

Passover timing of the miracle
Identification of Philip and Andrew
Some specific terms used: paidarion ("lad"), barley loaves, and opsarion ("dried fish")
Marked Eucharistic features
Pressure to proclaim Jesus as a king

The Eucharistic features of the account in John are especially interesting, as they possibly involve parallels with the OT story of Elisha feeding a crowd with barley loaves:

A man came from Baal-shalishah, bringing food from the first fruits to the man of God: twenty loaves of barley and fresh ears of grain in his sack. Elisha said, "Give it to the people and let them eat." But his servant said, "How can I set this before a hundred people?" So he repeated, "Give it to the people and let them eat, for thus says the LORD, 'They shall eat and have some left.'" He set it before them, they ate, and had some left, according to the word of the LORD. (2Kings 4:42-44 NRSV)

Brown notes that there may also be some link to the tradition found in the Didache:

And with regard to the fragmented Bread:
"We thank you, our Father,
for the life and knowledge
which you have made known to us
through Jesus your servant.
To you be glory forever.
/4/ As this < ... > lay scattered upon the mountains
and became one when it had been gathered,
so may your church be gathered into your kingdom
from the ends of the earth. (Did 9:3-4) [Hermenia]

Brown (p. 248) comments:

Besides the obvious parallels with John's account in the use of klasma ["fragmented bread"], eucharistein ["give thanks"], synagein ["gather"] (the last of which is peculiar to John's multiplication account), we should note that only John emphasizes that the multiplication took place on a mountain, and only John mentions the theme of Jesus as king (vs. 15).

John Dominic Crossan (Historical Jesus, 398) cites two archaeological reports:

... paintings on the walls of the earliest Christian catacombs in Rome, dating from slightly before 200 A.D., characteristically depict seven or eleven male figures, presumably the apostles, seated at table, about to partake of two fish and five loaves [and] two fish also appear accompanied by five loaves of bread, in early Christian funerary carvings and inscriptions. (Richard Hiers & Charles Kennedy , 21-23).

and

This data matches with independent findings that "there are no known Last Supper scenes in catacomb or sarcophagus art" (Irvine, 25)

Jesus Seminar

The voting of the Seminar on texts related to this item can be represented as follows:

A group of at least 500 people participated in a visionary experience, which came to be regarded as an appearance of the risen Jesus. [1 Cor 15:6]

John 6:1-15
Mark 6:35-44
Matt 14:15-21
Luke 9:12-17
Mark 8:1-10
Matt 15:32-39
Luke 24:13-35
Luke 24:41-43
John 21:1-14

Gerd Lüdemann

Lüdemann (Jesus, 45) offers the following historical judgment of the account in Mark 6:

The formation of this story derives from the needs of the community. Its historical value is nil. Anyone is free to accept the table fellowship of Jesus and his followers as a starting point for the rise of this story. But that is rather different from the feeding of the 5000.

John P. Meier

Meier (Marginal Jew II,966) suggests that the Gospel stories of Jesus feeding a multitude preserves a tradition about "some especially memorable communal meal of bread and fish" but does not think it possible to offer a judgment on whether anything miraculous was involved in the meal event. See pp. 950-967 for his complete discussion.

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Poetry

WARNING: Some may find the imagery, content, and musical choice for this poem to be flippant and/or offensive. The author's intent is to convery a serious holistic message. The focus here is Jesus' appearances to the disciples and Thomas in John 20. - Gene

THE THOMASIAN DANCE OF IRREVERENCE
or DOING THE BLOODY DIPPY
Sung to the Hokey Pokey [1]

Beginning with the hands:

You put your right finger in
You take your right finger out
You put your right finger in
And you move it all about

You do the bloody dippy
And you turn yourself around
That's what it's all about.

And now on to the feet:

You put your right toe in
You take your right toe out
You put your right toe in
And you move it all about

You do the bloody dippy
and you turn yourself around,
That's what it's all about.

And now up to the side:

You put your whole hand in
You take your whole hand out
You put your whole hand in
And you move it all about

You do the bloody dippy
and you turn yourself around
That's what it's all about.

Now "Jesus came and stood in front of them.....
Then he showed them his hands and his side."
But they didn't do the bloody dippy.

"Look and touch" he says to Thomas.
And Thomas did the bloody dippy.
"Do you believe because you have seen me?"

"But I didn't just see, I did the bloody dippy."

I mean, what kind of hypocritical crap is that?
The others get the big HS because their motto
was, "look, but don't do the bloody dippy." [2]

Like Doubter Thomas, if I get a chance to see,
I'm going to poke in my fingers, toes, and whole
hand for sure, I'm going to live the experience. [3]

Is it any wonder the HS has been so ineffectual?
See-don't-touch is only living half-way,
and the get-your-hands-bloody guy was shut out! [4]

John gets "A" for staging, "F" for spirit conveying.
And he even did it that way knowing all along that
the Word was bloody flesh! Don't that beat all! [5]

Now Mark, he knew the experience with HJ
was not half-way, but transforming vision and a
tight grip on the blood dripping cross full of HS. [6]

[1] Words and music [1]
Written By: Roland Lawrence LaPrise, concocted the song along with two fellow musicians in the late 1940s for the ski crowd in Sun Valley, Idaho. The group, the Ram Trio, recorded the song in 1949. In 1953, bandleader Ray Anthony bought the rights and recorded The Hokey Pokey on the B-side of another novelty record, The Bunny Hop. After the Ram Trio disbanded in the 1960s, country star Roy Acuff's publishing company bought the rights to The Hokey Pokey. Copyright 1950, Acuff-Rose Music Inc.

[2] Jn 20:22 "Here's some holy spirit. Take it." BLACK

[3] Jn 20:24-29 BLACK. From AOJ, p. 488, "When Thomas blurts out, "My Master! My God!" in v. 28 we have evidence that this tradition developed very late: in the earlier strata of the NT Jesus is never referred to as God. He says to Mary in 20:17, "I'm going back to my Father and your Father--to my God and your God..."

[4] Well, not completely shut out. From AOJ, p. 487-88, "Various documents were ascribed to Thomas. The Gospel of Thomas, now known in a recently discovered Coptic text, in addition to three Greek fragments; (begins with) a claim that its author is Didymos Judas Thomas, the twin brother of Jesus. (There is also) the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, a work that circulated in the second century; the Acts of Thomas, a third-century composition; and the Apocalypse of Thomas, which dates to the fourth century C.E. The apostle Thomas is supposed to have carried the gospel to the Parthians and eventually to India, where he is alleged to have founded the Mar Thoma Church; according to tradition, he was martyred there. His name is also associated with Syrian Christianity, which is centered in Edessa; the bones of Thomas were said to have been removed from India to Edessa at the end of the 4th century C.E."

[5] Jn 1:14 "The word became flesh..." (NRSV) BLACK

[6] Mk 9:2 "He was transformed in front of the them (SV) BLACK Mk 8:34 "Those who want to come....pick up their cross (SV) BLACK Mk 13:11"...it is not you who are speaking but the holy spirit." (SV) BLACK

Gene Stecher
Chambersburg, Pa.

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